JJJ Radio J-Files Special
Toriphiles Heidi & Nathan sent me a transcript of an interview between Tori and Richard Kingsmill which aired on JJJ radio in Australia on July 16 1998 from 10pm-1am. This was a three hour special on Tori, looking at her work over the years, and included several rarities. The interview was very unique indeed, and Tori seemed to truly frustrate the reviewer.
[fading out the last strains of SPARK] richard kingsmill: "first up ME AND A GUN, and right there SPARK - the first single and the first taste of the current album for tori amos, FROM THE CHOIRGIRL HOTEL. richard kingsmill with you tonight, you're listening to the j files on triple j. ah, preceding the recording of FTCGH it was a pretty chaotic two years for tori amos. she toured constantly throughout 1995 and 1996, although she didn't make it to australia which is a real pity, but we'll get onto that later. she also suffered a relationship break-up, she suffered a miscarriage and then she enjoyed a marriage so it was a pretty eventful 18 months prior to the recording of this album. there was a lot to talk about in just 20 minutes. when i had the chance of interviewing her recently things didn't go according exactly to plan and tori asked for this interview to be played in full and i had no problem with that. rk: hello, triple j. john witherspoon: richard? john witherspoon. i've got tori here for you right now. tori: hey richard. rk: tori, hi. how are you? tori: i'm okay. rk: that's good. can you hang on one tick. hang on, the other phone in the studio's just rung. [in the background richard answers the phone and tells whomever is on the other end that "he's in the other studio"]. sorry tori. tori: that's okay. rk: we're on a tight schedule, i know, so we'll fire off the questions if that's okay - are you set? tori: mmm hmmm. rk: before we start talking about the new album i just wanted to get some sort of sense of the importance of your own work to yourself. when you look back at what you've created so far are you proud of the body of work you've done so far? tori: um... well, that's a funny question because more than anything it just reflects my life. i don't know if you're proud about it. rk: do you, i mean, are you the sort of person who looks more ahead than you do back? tori: umm... hmmmm. rk: because a lot of artists sort of get to a point where they've done four or five albums and they kind of think 'oh there's still so much more to do, so much more i've got to get out through my music' and i'm kind of curious to know where you sit, at this point in time, with the new album just out. tori: no, and there's so much more crap they can write, you know what i mean? i mean, i think at the end of the day, um, it's kinda scary, you know, writing music because you don't know what people are gonna think. and it's pretty vulnerable. ummmm, and people can be kinda vicious about the whole thing. so all you can do is like write the music and put it out there. rk: yeah. you've never been one though to hold back with your music. tori: ummm... you know, the... at the end of the day the muse kind of takes me by the hair and drags me and says: 'you know, if you don't respect me then, um, i'm never gonna come to you again'. rk: so you feel like, and i've read this before in your interviews, where you feel like you're almost a channel for the muse. tori: well, i think um, if you think you do it by yourself then you might have a really, really humbling awakening coming. rk: [laughs]. i mean, how much intervention do you honestly feel? when you're creating the music are you literally that sort of out of yourself where you lose sense of time and place? tori: no. obviously my experiences come in to play, but at the same time you have to realise it's just thread, it's not what all the songs are about. and you have to respect that, um, the songs, it's not just about you and if you think that then i think, um, the songs just stop coming. rk: why would they just stop coming? tori: well, do you write songs? rk: no. what? do i? no. tori: if you try and you get arrogant then you'll know why they stop coming! rk: but why does, i'm just a bit confused as to why arrogance, i mean, if you felt confident in what you're doing and you felt like you were churning out great stuff... tori: no. confidence and arrogance are two very, very different things. *you* know that! rk: yeah, i know *that*, but i mean in terms of a songwriter, what do you mean by arrogance? tori: if you think you're the only one that's creating then you're quite an arrogant person. there are a lot of them out there and they don't make records anymore. the ones that do, um, understand it's not just about them - whether it's neil young, peter gabriel, robert plant -- [tori laughs a little] give them a call! they'll tell you this. rk: so, would it be fair to say it feels like a magical process for you? tori: [tori is silent for a long time. you hear sounds of breathing, thinking and beginning to speak occasionally, as she remains mostly silent before speaking]. magical's a very tricky word right now, just because the americans really use that against you if you say that. rk: uh, okay. why? tori: well, do you know many americans? rk: [laughing] uh, no. well, i know a few... well... tori: [giggling, though seemingly very serious] well, stay away! rk: why? have the press bitten you a little of late? tori: i think, um, anytime you mention the word magical they get very confused on new age, they get very confused on what that means. rk: it just sounds like you're being very cautious with the words you use and i'm just worried that you've used words in the past and people have started to criticise you because you've just been very open in interviews. would that be true? tori: that's true. my grandfather taught me when i was a little girl to respect the spiritual world and, um, it's funny when you do that sometimes how people really, um, make this, i don't know, some kind of disneyworld, um, bastardisation of what that means. rk: yeah, i mean it's very hard to talk about that stuff and, for one, put it into words but two, relate sincerely something special you would have felt inside. as soon as you put it into words you kind of undercut the significance of it, don't you? tori: well, you've just put it perfectly. rk: [laughs] well, that's really a shame, isn't it? tori: yeah, it is. rk: yeah because, i mean, it can be something that's so enlightening to you that you want to share it or you want to just relate it and it is frustrating. tori: i think the best thing is you put the music out there and people get it or they don't. and if they don't, you just keep doing what you're doing and, um, that's sorta the end of it. rk: your music is interesting because it's not only open to lots of interpretations but it's also open to a lot of different emotional responses. i mean, i listen to your songs and just depending upon what i'm feeling at the point in time, it will reflect how i kind of try to get inside your head and hear what you're trying to create. and, therefore, it's open to many interpretations, many of them probably the wrong interpretations, in terms of what you were trying to create. tori: yeah, but the exciting thing is this, you know, getting inside your own head, not getting inside my head. [laughing]. you don't want to get inside my head. getting inside your own head, that's kind of exciting! rk: oh definitely! i mean, that's the wonderful thing. but you also reflect on the artist, him or herself, and try to just imagine or wonder, it's just common human behaviour isn't it really? tori: ahhh... mmmm.... rk: and therein is the difficulty in doing interviews with artists because sometimes you're prying and probing into their subconscious... tori: yeah! and i'm prying into yours! rk: [laughs]. you're not supposed to do that! i'm only supposed to do that to you! tori: yeah, but 'sposed to - those words aren't in my vocabulary! rk: can i just... tori: that's why i lived in the corner when i was at school. rk: what? you were isolated? tori: my desk was always in the corner. rk: oh, okay. why? was that a safe position for you do you think? tori: it's not about safe. i asked too many questions that they didn't like. rk: oohh - i see what you mean now. sorry! so, they kind of separated you and banished you... tori: yeah. funny that, eh? rk: uh, yeah. education. i mean, we could sort of talk about education and its limitations on young people but that's probably a 20 to 30 minute discussion at least! tori: no, we could talk about... well, the thing is, when you're the interviewee questioning the interviewer, what's going on in their brain, that doesn't seem to be okay, which i find very funny. rk: oh, it is. i... tori: you guys just don't want to go there, do you? rk: no, we don't want to be drawn into the process... tori: yeah... rk: do you know why? part of the reason being it assumes, and reflecting back on the word arrogance, we're as important as you are. tori: don't play that sweetpea! don't even play that card. don't hide behind that one. rk: what? you don't think i'm being sincere? tori: no, no, not that at all. you're hiding behind that so that i don't like tear you apart. rk: no, no, that's, look. i mean, totally, an interviewer's role should be to allow the musician, the person they're speaking to, to speak to their fans. i am just a mediator who, whenever i interview someone, i'm just merely trying to get them to open up about their work to try and give some sense of communication to the fans, i've... tori: i think you'd be surprised what sort of interview you and i could have if i could really, really sit down and talk to you. 'cause you have to know - i haven't told you *anything* that i don't want to tell you. and you have to know that i'm very, very curious about who you are. so be very, very, very careful because i might just stalk you. [laughs]. rk: [laughs]. yeah... tori: that made you very uncomfortable, didn't it? rk: oh yeah, i mean, totally. and i understand that the artist is only going to reveal a certain amount of their own self to the... tori: you have to understand something, i've done thousands of interviews, and you have to understand that i've been stalked many times. you have to understand that sometimes i'm curious about you guys because don't think i don't know stuff about you when you ask me questions. that just really, really makes me giggle sometimes, that you guys think that i don't know stuff about you just by what you ask me. funny eh? rk: i know. but if i can be bold at this point and ask you, after ten minutes of speaking, of what you think of what i'm saying, i'd be curious to know... tori: i would like to sit down with you with a margarita and a really good green salad and have one hour and interview you! and whatever radio station you're on, i would like to take your role and you have mine. i would *love* that. and i would really, really, really be honourable towards you. rk: ah, ah, have you assumed that i have not been honourable towards you? tori: i'm not saying that. rk: oh. tori: but i'm saying don't be afraid that if we ever had that opportunity, don't be afraid... rk: i, i would very... tori: and i would very much love for you to play this whole interview for everybody. is this live? rk: oh, no, no, no - this is not live, but this will get played, we're doing a big... tori: fantastic! because this would not get played in america. rk: no, no... tori: no way! rk: no, i, i... it would be on the edit floor already. either that or the interview would of been cut off by now... tori: oh, absolutely. so, play this. and if you ever get, i don't know, an opportunity to be interviewed, i would like to be the one to interview you. rk: you make this sound like such a threatening process! tori: i don't think i do! rk: i'm interpreting... tori: how many people have wanted to interview you? rk: ummm, not all that many, only a couple and.. tori: and why does it have to be threatening? it's just, i'm interested in interviewing you. that doesn't have to be threatening! if you think that's threatening, what do you think i go through every day? 20 times a day. [laughing]. rk: but you're making it sound like it's a threatening process... tori: oh, am *i*? [giggling] am *i* making it? rk: well, no, hang on, because you just... tori: this is not a dual conversation! you have nothing to do with this! own your part in this. rk: what is my part in this? tori: hmmm. rk: i've answered that! i've said that! i was saying that *you're* making this sound like it's a threatening process. tori: oh, i'm sure i am! [laughing]. i'm sure it's all my fault! rk: oohh, i'm not saying that tori! i'm just saying that you said that you'd want to sit down with me for an hour... tori: absolutely, i would! so, why's that threatening to you? rk: ahh, ohh... umm... to show me what that's like to have the shoe on the other foot, to see what it's like to be on... tori: so maybe i would be absolutely gracious with you and really compassionate. you don't know what i would be like. rk: i try to be compassionate and gracious in every interview i do though. tori: but who's saying you're not? i'm just saying i'd like to interview you, you haven't been interviewed before, i'd like to do it... rk: i've been interviewed a couple of times and, let me tell you, i find it much easier to ask the questions that to answer them. i will say that. tori: so maybe you haven't really had caring people asking you the right questions. rk: sorry, so maybe i, i missed that, maybe i... tori: you wanna try? let's try. let's just go for it, like 'what's your favourite ice-cream sundae?' rk: that's a very american question... my favourite ice cream would have to be chocolate. we don't have sundaes very much over here. tori: i thought every country had sundaes? rk: oh, they do, but it's, you know, ice-cream sundaes are kind of like banana splits with topping and nuts and all that sort of stuff, isn't it? tori: i never have nuts! rk: you never have nuts? tori: [giggles]. rk: what's wrong with nuts?! tori: [giggles again] i just don't have 'em on my ice-cream sundaes. rk: oh, okay, that's the vision i've got of ice-cream sundaes, but if i eat ice cream i just eat it plain. and chocolate is my favourite flavour. and vanilla... tori: yeah, see. i love chocolate too. i don't think you'd be a horrible interview, i think you'd be okay. rk: well, [laughing], that line of questioning's fine. you start digging a little deeper and you might see me squirm though... tori: maybe i won't dig deeper. that's my whole point. rk: ah, yeah. okay. tori: yeah, i won't. rk: so, is it fair to say that the interview process can try to dig so deep that it's just not fair? tori: it's just, it scratches so deep that i'm so ready for you guys that i wouldn't, do you know what i mean? rk: yeah... yeah. i've interviewed a lot of people, tori, and no one's actually said that and i think they feel it and they've never said it. you're the first person who's ever said that. tori: well, i haven't exercised in three weeks and i've got too much cellulite on my body so... [laughing]. there you go! rk: [laughing]. no. i think what you speak is a lot of truth, and i've often wondered about this process, but never had it confronted to me like you've just confronted me with it. tori: [breathing can be heard but she doesn't speak]. rk: so, i don't know if i should say thank you, but it's just interesting... tori: [laughing] i promise you, you don't have to say thank you! but if you ever need to get interviewed, call me because i really, really won't give you a hard time. [pauses before continuing]. i've been given a hard time enough in my life, i'm not going to give you one. rk: well, i don't know where exactly to go with this interview, because... tori: but don't you love that? don't you love for once not knowing where to go? i send you a big kiss! rk: oh tori - if, not intimidation, but if making me shake and squirm and question my every next question, you've succeeded and i, um, i, i'm not ashamed to say that. you've succeeded in, um, sort of making me flounder a bit. tori: [sounding sorry because she thinks richard has misunderstood her] that wasn't my intention... rk: i know it wasn't your intention. but as an interviewer, i like to maintain a level of a] control, b] consistency and c] good conversation and at the moment [laughs] i'm struggling with all three! tori: [giggles] um, okay. let's go to one thing because i'm really, really curious. um, who's your favourite formula one driver? rk: ah, i hate car racing, don't get me started, don't get me started on car racing ... tori: do you? can i just tell you something? rk: what? tori: i really wanted to be a car driver. rk: when? tori: nobody knows that but i really, really didn't want to play the piano. i wanted to race cars. and my dad didn't think that was a thing that girls did. rk: how old were you at this point? tori: five. rk: but were you playing the piano before five? tori: yeah. two and a half. rk: oh, okay, but car racing was a bigger passion, was it? tori: yeah and being a ballerina. but i was fat and not cute. so there you go. rk: you look great now, were you really a plump child? tori: oh yeah. rk: oh. was that, um, i, see i was always thin as a kid and so i never... tori: were you really? rk: yeah. i know big kids got victimised a hell of a lot, didn't they? tori: yeah, but i'll tell you a little secret. i only look good now because all the photographers, they put me in the computer and they slim me down. rk: oh they don't! tori: oh of course they do! rk: i've seen you in person. tori: i'm okay. you know, that's what they do. you know, let's not be naive - that's what they do to everybody. that's how it works. rk: do you mind that? tori: the only thing you have at the end of that day, right -- before johnny comes in and drags me off to do 20 more interviews, is that, um, you have your instrument. you look at it, you respect it, you play it and that's all you've got. and your self respect. at the end of the day that's all you have. rk: self respect and the instrument. and a respect for that instrument. tori: that's it. in the music business that's all you've got. rk: do you ever question... tori: and you know what? that's not bad. do you know what i mean? rk: if you can maintain that, that'd be brilliant. isn't that like the little seed inside the whole plant whereby if you can maintain the purity of that everything else you can deal with? tori: [takes a deep breath in, breathes out and giggles a little]. hmm. it, yeah, depends how big the 'everything else' is. rk: ah he he... tori: do you know what i mean? if we're honest, you've gotta be so strong to fight that. and for some reason i've been up for, like, 24 hours. i'm so tired, i'm being very honest with you. but for all those musicians out there, that's the truth. you have to know why you're making music and if you don't stay true, *somebody* will steer you down a different path. rk: hmmm. you are strong though, aren't you? tori: i'm not *even* gonna answer that. rk: why? tori: that's vulgar to answer that. rk: that's vulgar to answer that? tori: you know that question. rk: i know the question. i know the answer as well... tori: okay. richard: ... i just wanted you to reassure yourself that you're strong enough to go through that. tori: i don't need to reassure myself. rk: for the fans... tori: no. you and i wouldn't be talking if i didn't know that. rk: okay. i understand. ummm, this interview is going to wind to an end very, very quickly... tori: fair enough... rk: [laughing]. i've barely asked any of the questions on my page. i don't mind that... tori: don't you love that? rk: i don't mind that one little bit. often the best interviews i do, i don't sort of even ask *any* of the questions. tori: hmmm. rk: i don't mind that whatsoever. there's many, many things i want to ask you because this is such an interesting new album...but maybe... tori: but, but no, but you have to know there are questions i want to ask you. so, when it's time, call me. okay? and i'll interview you? rk: [laughing]. okay... tori: deal? rk: yeah, yeah, if you can be contactable. tori: you'd be surprised! rk: okay. tori: okay. bye for now. rk: can i ask you one smidge of a question? very easy - are you coming back to australia soon? tori: i would love to come to australia. i would love to. it isn't my choice at this point. [laughing]. call east west records, okay? rk: sorry? what was that? tori: if you want me to come, call east west records and tell them you want me to come. rk: well, yeah, i just know that the fan base here that you've got is incredibly strong... tori: yeah, i would love to come but, you know what? let's be honest - call east west records and tell them that you want me to come.... that's what this is about. rk: okay. i think they should already know that though. tori: yeah, but let's not be silly. put heat under them. rk: [laughing]. put heat under them. okay. tori: if you want me to come, put heat under them. that's the truth. rk: well, the fans are hearing this, so i'll let them deal with a lot of it too. tori: fair enough. rk: okay, tori amos, thanks for your time. tori: okay, bye bye. rk: bye.
Here is a report on the special from Tim Finney:
As part of their J Files special on Tori, JJJ Radio (Australia) included an interview between Tori and Richard Kingsmill recorded over the phone about a week ago. I have to say that it was about the most fascinating and surprising interviews I've ever heard. I really, really, really wish I'd taped it. Anyway, I thought you might be interested in what happened.
I can't remember all of it (it was past 11:00 pm) but basically Richard started off asking questions which I think he felt were out of the norm. The first question he asked was whether she felt proud of what she had done so far in her career, or was she constantly looking forward. Tori took a long time to answer, which gave Richard and the listeners the first clue that something strange was happening inside her head. Tori later clarified that she had been up for 24 hours and was in a weird mood. She said something vague about not controlling the muse, which lead on to her explaining how she is a channel for the songs. She then said that if any artist ever became arrogant about their songwriting ability they would automatically lose it and the songs would stop coming. Richard obviously didn't agree with this but didn't want to say so, so he just asked her to clarify as to why this was so. Tori explained as much as she could, but then got a bit exasperated, asking him if he wrote songs and that only songwriters would know what she meant.
Then it began to get really interesting. Tori obviously got a taste for asking him questions, and sayed that she wanted to conduct the interview. Richard was really thrown by this and started getting worried. Tori told him that he should ring her some time and they'd have a margherita and she'd really interview him. She said that the interviewing process was really intrusive and she thought that interviewers were insensitive bastards but she wouldn't be like that with him, and she'd ask nice non-intrusive questions. Richard was offended, and he assured her that he always respected his interviewee subjects. Tori answered with a playful "Did anyone say you didn't?" she asked him what his favourite sundae was, and he said that Australians weren't too big on sundaes, but that he really liked plain chocolate ice-cream. Tori was disappointed, but reassured him that she liked chocolate ice-cream too. She said she'd like to stalk him, because she was often stalked and she'd like to have it the other way for once. Richard then said that she made the whole interviewing process sound so threatening, but Tori thought he felt that *she* was threatening. She said that she'd be really gentle with him, it was just that she found him fascinating.
Richard then admitted that he was completely messed up by the conversation and didn't know where to go next, and Tori said "Don't you love that?" He said that it felt strange that she was asking him all these questions. Tori asked why, and he said that as an interviewer he always tried to not involve himself too much in the conversation because the musicians were above him - he was merely a conduit from them to their fans. Tori then said "Don't give me that... you're being totally insincere." Richard professed his innocence, and actually got frustrated when she didn't believe him, but she only accused him more! She asked him whether he wanted to be a race car driver. He said that he didn't like the sport, to which she replied that as a child she wanted to be a race car driver and a ballerina.
As the interview began to wrap up, she reiterated that she wanted to meet him, and told him that if he called her management he'd be surprised at what might happen. Richard was both disbelieving and, frankly, terrified! Just before the end, he asked her if she was coming to Australia. She then said "I would love to come to Australia" in a voice that clearly indicated that at the moment there's no plans at all. Richard noticed this and promised her that all the fans were dying to see her, and she said that if he *really* wanted her to come he should call East West, as if she expected him to ring after she hung up the phone. He said that Eastwest should know that, and she told him that was unfair and selfish, landing him in hot water again! She asked him to play the entire interview on air (which he obviously did) because they'd never do something like that in America. She told him *again* that she wanted to interview him, and with that they ended the interview, leaving Richard a sweating nervous wreck. I swear I've never laughed so much during an interview!
It just proves again how... individual Tori is, I suppose!
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